Comments on Flobi.com, The Blog: Jesus's Parables: Historically Accurate?!?!

Thank the Lord for his forgiveness!

2009-05-13T13:53:00.000-04:00

Thank the Lord for his forgiveness!

I was a Christian until I was about 19. Then, I b...

2009-05-13T13:52:00.000-04:00

I was a Christian until I was about 19. Then, I became a Christian again at 29. In the mean time, I basically interpreted the Bible any way I wanted that conformed with what I desired at the moment. I called myself a Christian, but I wasn't really because I did not even try to do what Jesus wanted me to do and I had little to no desire to. I even prayed...but the prayers were always, "Give me

Josh, how long have you been a Christian? I ask ...

2009-05-13T13:01:00.000-04:00

Josh, how long have you been a Christian?

I ask because your last comment frankly impresses me (not that that means much in itself). I've seen men (Christian men even) live entire lives without grasping the simple lesson you mention above.

Further clarification was requested privately but ...

2009-05-13T12:56:00.000-04:00

Further clarification was requested privately but I thought if (in the unlikely event) someone is reading this besides Wes, Mike and I, the fruits of the spirit are listed here: Galatians 5:22-23. And it is the duty of other Christians to remind me when I am not producing the fruits of the spirit as well so that I can repent and change my ways.

Mike, perhaps adversary has too many negative conn...

2009-05-13T12:23:00.000-04:00

Mike, perhaps adversary has too many negative connotations, and as such, I apologize for my use of it (I shouldn't have), however, it is true that you do stand in an opposing position (which was my intention to convey in using it and I used it light-heartedly), though two can be friends while in opposition, even in the civil war, there were friends who fought friends. Maybe you are not opposing

Mike, Your professions of Jesus are only valid if...

2009-05-13T11:19:00.000-04:00

Mike,

Your professions of Jesus are only valid if the Jesus you describe is the same one the Gospels describe and since you don't we obviously view you as not shearing the same faith we do. Since you insist that the two are the same, yes, we also tend to view you as subversive, whether that is your express intention or not.

Believe it or not I don't see you as evil, though,

When you approach a conversation as if the person ...

2009-05-13T10:51:00.000-04:00

When you approach a conversation as if the person is an "adversary" (per your original post), that underlying narrative effects the the tone of the whole conversation.

Josh, you've approached me as if I'm an opponent of faith. You've even implied demonic influence. You making implications. Words do have underlying meanings and this thread has been a clear example. By making those

Mike, Notwithstanding my own ignorance about what ...

2009-05-13T03:00:00.000-04:00

Mike,
Notwithstanding my own ignorance about what exegesis REALLY is (and how applying it, if that is what you have, in fact, done has removed the plain meaning of the scriptures from you), me reading the Bible without any advanced literary critique leads me to believe that none is necessary besides the effort to honestly translate it into my own language (thankfully, that part has already

What you are describing Mike is not merely to asce...

2009-05-12T20:34:00.000-04:00

What you are describing Mike is not merely to ascertain the meaning of a text, but a particular system known as "higher textual criticism" which originated in liberal German theology among those who want to "modernize" the text. It is not biased by any stretch of the imagination and a great example of this is seen in The Jesus

I think we may have found what caused one of our p...

2009-05-12T17:54:00.000-04:00

I think we may have found what caused one of our problems. The word criticism is not used here to mean criticize. This is why context matters (Even in our 21st century discussions).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_criticism

Literary criticism is a term that in no way means to "put down". It is a methodology designed to be non-biased and let the text speak for itself

Mike, Luke 14:7-14 and Luke 14:15-24: Both are wri...

2009-05-12T17:18:00.000-04:00

Mike, Luke 14:7-14 and Luke 14:15-24: Both are written in historical narrative, e.g. He did this; He said this; etc. I will not argue for the content of Jesus's words always being easy to interpret, after all, many times He was intentionally hiding the truth from the evil people around Him (very often the Pharisees), in a way that those who love Him would understand.

By definition,

Wes, Can you read my last comment again and be ca...

2009-05-12T16:11:00.000-04:00

Wes,

Can you read my last comment again and be careful to address what I actually said? I agree with your analysis, but it was not an analysis of my comment. I think you mistake me for some kind of moral relativist (which doesn't actually exist as far as I've seen). Again, you dress up straw men and knock them down well. I'll gladly stand with you in knocking them down, but I'm not

"Irenaeus, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, and every o...

2009-05-12T15:33:00.000-04:00

"Irenaeus, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, and every other historical theologian would agree with that, don't you think?"

No, I don't think. I've been reading them recently and especially Irenaeus, Ignatious, Polycarp, etc. who were persecuted (many martyred) for their strict interpertation of the Scriptures. They were open to instruction but they weren't open to any old interpertation

Josh, Do you see any difference in the literary t...

2009-05-12T14:48:00.000-04:00

Josh,

Do you see any difference in the literary technique used in Luke 14:7-14 as compared to the next verses, Luke 14:15-24?

It would seem to me that the author gives us both a symbolic parable (the later) and a literal interpretation (the former), both offered by the same narrator, Jesus.

The text goes on to provide more parables and even includes a text that

Perhaps I should have said instead of "especially ...

2009-05-12T13:49:00.000-04:00

Perhaps I should have said instead of "especially those which are based on the old Pharisee ones", "specifically those which are based on the old Pharisee ones." Anyways.

Because of your persistence, Mike, I will try to convey to you what occured in Luke 14:7-15 (The Guests as listed on the parable list in the article). This is the information I gleam from a straight-forward

I am not discriminate against or hostile to Jews. ...

2009-05-12T13:12:00.000-04:00

I am not discriminate against or hostile to Jews. In fact, one of my good friends is Jewish (though Messianic Jewish). I discriminate against the Jewish teachings and traditions especially those which are based on the old Pharisee ones (like Midrash), because Jesus did and said to do so. For the people themselves, God loves all people and I am called to do the same.

"...to

My apologies if I've formed an incorrect assumptio...

2009-05-12T12:46:00.000-04:00

My apologies if I've formed an incorrect assumption of your position but from reading your comments here as well as your blog make me wonder how you can claim to be a Christian (follower of God's Messiah or Christos as the title is known in Greek who the Bible asserts to be Jesus) and yet

Wes, I agree with a great deal of what your sayin...

2009-05-12T12:08:00.000-04:00

Wes,

I agree with a great deal of what your saying. I'm not suggesting that I have an alliance with Derrida. Bringing Derrida into this discussion certainly muddies the water. I think it takes us off track. I have not heard anyone here reference a "postmodern" view of truth or use Derrida or deconstruction as an answer for interpreting parables. I'm not really sure why you even

The close alliance with post modernism and it's vi...

2009-05-12T11:29:00.000-04:00

The close alliance with post modernism and it's view of truth is the reason deconstructionalism is an inappropriate method to use when trying to ascertain the meaning of a text (any, including the Bible) since it presupposes an absence of (or at least an inability to understand) an objective truth that transcends time, space, and persons.

True, these methods may quell dissensions, but

Wes, "Derrida's literary theory merely gives a...

2009-05-12T11:03:00.001-04:00
Wes,

"Derrida's literary theory merely gives aid to a liberal view of scripture which allows us to pick and choose parts we like while reinterpreting other parts to posses a meaning more desirable to us..."I think you may be combining several different terms into one generic term, "liberal view". The historical critical (often called "liberal") view of modern scholarship never

Actually, it does not say to obey their teachings,...

2009-05-12T11:03:00.000-04:00
Actually, it does not say to obey their teachings, it says to obey them. "If so, how much hope does that provide we who are just as rebellious and disobedient as they?" "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Though you are right, God has not abandoned them, it is they that

"For Jews do not associate with Samaritans." "You...

2009-05-12T10:36:00.000-04:00
"For Jews do not associate with Samaritans." "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." I think the Bible gives enough info about the Samaritans to understand the meanings when they are referenced.

As far as not knowing what a word means, like chaff or winnowing, ignorance of the meaning of a word is no excuse for even

Receiving Jesus as a little child does not necessi...

2009-05-12T10:28:00.000-04:00
Receiving Jesus as a little child does not necessitate that we think as little children (1 Corinthians 13:11) and forgo begin as wise as serpents (Mat 10:16). Rather, it is a call to accept what we've been shown plainly and completely, allowing it to permeate our lives.

Are you seriously argueing that God has abandoned those to whom he made a covenant with in the OT? If so, how much

Certainly, these things should not be ignored. Ho...

2009-05-12T10:17:00.000-04:00
Certainly, these things should not be ignored. However, reading the Bible as the Jewish traditions teach clearly ignores the New Testament where it is told that God has abandoned the Jewish people as His chosen people because they have abandoned Him; even the Pharisees understood that parable (and wanted to arrest Him for it). As such, their interpretation of His Word is little if any more

Yes, then we would be like Derrida who wrote:

Writing thus enlarged and radicalized, no longer issues from a logos. Further, it inaugurates the destruction, not the demolition but the de-sedimentation, the de-construction, of all the significations that have their source in that of the logos.

Comments on Flobi.com, The Blog: Jesus's Parables: Historically Accurate?!?!

Thank the Lord for his forgiveness!

I was a Christian until I was about 19. Then, I b...

Josh, how long have you been a Christian? I ask ...

Further clarification was requested privately but ...

Mike, perhaps adversary has too many negative conn...

Mike, Your professions of Jesus are only valid if...

When you approach a conversation as if the person ...

Mike, Notwithstanding my own ignorance about what ...

What you are describing Mike is not merely to asce...

I think we may have found what caused one of our p...

Mike, Luke 14:7-14 and Luke 14:15-24: Both are wri...

Wes, Can you read my last comment again and be ca...

"Irenaeus, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, and every o...

Josh, Do you see any difference in the literary t...

Perhaps I should have said instead of "especially ...

I am not discriminate against or hostile to Jews. ...

My apologies if I've formed an incorrect assumptio...

Wes, I agree with a great deal of what your sayin...

The close alliance with post modernism and it's vi...

Wes, "Derrida's literary theory merely gives a...

Actually, it does not say to obey their teachings,...

"For Jews do not associate with Samaritans." "You...

Receiving Jesus as a little child does not necessi...

Certainly, these things should not be ignored. Ho...

Yes, then we would be like Derrida who wrote:Writing thus enlarged and radicalized, no longer issues from a logos. Further, it inaugurates the destruction, not the demolition but the de-sedimentation, the de-construction, of all the significations that have their source in that of the logos.

Yes, then we would be like Derrida who wrote:

Writing thus enlarged and radicalized, no longer issues from a logos. Further, it inaugurates the destruction, not the demolition but the de-sedimentation, the de-construction, of all the significations that have their source in that of the logos.